Friday, October 8, 2010

Fierce Opposition to NYC Mosque Echoes the Past

The fierce opposition to the Mosque in NYC near Ground Zero  has a striking familiarity to earlier US history.
You might find the simularity curious. . .

Why does history repeat itself?  Because people do not listen the first time." (Salada tea bag wisdom)  LOL


Gary Kelly said...

Why does history repeat itself? Well, history is largely the result of human activity, and human beings are at the mercy of human nature.

So, if we can change human nature, we can change the course of history.

Don't mind me. I'm just trying to be a smartie pants.

Stew said...

I can see the point that the priest is making. However, consider that NY is now overrun by these Catholics. These foriegners with crazy ideas. In fact, they have spead over the entire country(even Utah).

As I've stated many times, I have respect for all faiths. But for those who don't, this can be seen as a threat to their very way of life.

Maybe change is good.

Great Post!

JustinO'Shea said...

OK, Smartie Pants. . . it's OK. . .I loves ya still ! ;-))

btw, I escaped this afternoon. . .woo oooo. . .I ran away. . .I am home on the Cape with my honey. . .lucky me! We both need some down time, some quality time. . . ;-)

AND I don't need to be back on campus till 11am class on Tuesday morning. . Oct 12 holiday for that "1492 sailing the ocean blue" Italian Chris Columbus. . .who thought he had made it to China [aka Cathay].


JustinO'Shea said...

Stew. . .suppose for a moment you were actually Muslim, and at the same time the great guy we are getting to know here en blog. . who really was born in the USA, of parents who were born here, of parents who came here looking for some freedom to breathe, live, love, work, devout and kindly Muslims, wanting to live here without the fear of Sharia.

Try on their prayer mat. . .lol . how would you feel to the reactions of your fellow Americans, with a similar background to yours, violently reacting to your community wanting to build an Islamic center for themselves and their neighbors. . wouldn't you feel religious/ethnic violence. . . .unjustly discriminated against because of fear and ignorance. . .how would YOU feel? ;-)

Is this almost the same as what so many L&G people feel in these United States. . .so clearly brought home to you and me what our younger [and older] brothers and sisters are taunted, bullied, killed about. . . smae thing, isn't it. . .

Gawd, I am wound up on this scene. . .;-) Glad I am home with Peter this weekend! He helps me stay grounded!

Hang in there, Bro. . .


Anonymous said...

Unfortunately not enough people will actually be swayed by the Rev. Kevin V. Madigan.

Gary is quite correct in what he says about humans being humans, a favourite point of mine indeed, he stole my thunder.....good one mate (hear the sarcasm in my voice? lol)

Unfortunately the very thing that makes us human is both destructive and constructive, and we'll always be at the mercy of ourselves. Paradoxes, gotta love 'em.

I've often wondered what life on earth would be like without know, the stuff that comes up in idle late night and sometimes alcohol induced reflections .... like the old saying/intelligence/argument that "More people have been killed in the name of God than.....? etc etc.

But it would be impossible for us to be human and not have a god of some kind. I don't and more than a few us don't, but what would life be like without all you others?

Can't imagine it.
It would be like life without gays like me, like us. Unimaginable...ha...
excuse my Saturday coffee ramblings...(giggle)

Greg in Adelaide

J said...

There is one important distinction: The anti-catholic hysteria was firmly rooted in ignorance and mythology. no one cared about the muslim religion until its extreme adherents became terrorists, and even when more moderate muslims began promoting adherence to shria law with all of its distasteful anti-western dimensions. I agree that muslims have the right to build their new islamic center two blocks from the Wold Trade Center site, but given the well justified hurt and resentment the memory of 9/11 engenders in New Yorkers, the decision was in very poor taste. This episode would not have created the resentment it did had more "moderate" muslim leaders have engaged in a very public campaign against the extremeists. They still remain strangely silent.

Gary Kelly said...

Greg in Adelaide (known as the city of churches in Oz) raised an interesting point: what would life be like without a god of some kind.

It would be like life without pyramids and grand cathedrals and mosques and other magnificent structures inspired by a belief in something far greater than ourselves. It would be like life without our esteemed leaders and role models and heroes to whom we aspire and whom we seek to emulate. It would be like life without art.

Whilever there are humans, there will be gods and heroes.

JustinO'Shea said...

Well said, Gary. . .profound.


J said...

Well, Gary, we all love the art and architecture religion has inspired in men, but what about the deities they celebrate? It tells us something about religious mythology that no one today wants to visit the old god's home and say hi to Thoth, Osirius, Isis and Baal, or go feed the golden calf and Quetzalcoatl in their petting zoo. The motive to celebrate the causative agent of the universe is indeed noble, but the more humans have attempted to define its attributes the more they make it incredible, and, ultimately, passe.

Anonymous said...

The devastating and horrific memories of 9/11 are still fresh in the minds of every American. I agree with J, building a mosque near Ground Zero is in poor taste. Furthermore No 1, if the mosque was finally built there, it would be a pyrrhic victory. Furthermore No. 2, I think both the muslim religious leaders and the pastor calling for burning the Koran are using this controversy to gain publicity.

The Waiting Virgin?!?!?!

JustinO'Shea said...

J. . .let me try to continue this thought in the same verbal style you use. . .maybe. . . hehe

The indescribable Transcendent One became Immanent in the Incarnation:
when the Word assumed/took on human nature in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

We humans can only express this Transcendent-Immanence in terms learned from our human experience of the transcendent reality. It is this human-attempt that is spoken across the years. . traditio= I pass on the word.

Sometimes this tradition is limited or altered by the perception of the one passing on the message. . .for our unique 'perception' come from our own experiences, things learned from others, and our own current fears, needs and desires.

The message becomes passe' probably because the perceptions of the messenger - the traditor - become passe', thus ceasing to be relevant to hearers. . . and the force of the traditio weakens and becomes irrelevant.

Basta! Enough! The End. ;-)

Anonymous said...

But like Basil (in Fawlty Towers), please, don't anyone mention the Crusades.

Greg in Adelaide

J said...

Keep it up, Justin, and I'll have to issue a fatwa against you!

JustinO'Shea said...




Gary Kelly said...

I'm not sure I understand all the intellectual gobbledeegook from J and J. Are you guys referring to the old expression, "losing something in the translation"?

JustinO'Shea said...

Oh. . . ummm. .sorry. . .I was merely explaining my theory of why religious traditions become passe'. . irrelevant. . .just using theological and psychological phenomena to describe theological and psychological realities: 'religious' jargon can become just that. . . .meaningless jargon perhaps due to unrealistic expectations.


Gary Kelly said...

Hmmm. Everything risks becoming passe', not because it's irrelevant, but simply because humans tire of it.

I belong to a photo web site called Red Bubble. Now we all love sunrises and sunsets. Right? But when 20,000 photographers around the world post tens of thousands of photos of sunrises and sunsets, it all becomes a bit ho hum.

Is that what you and J are saying?

In other words, it's the old adage, familiarity breeds contempt.

I think it would be fairer to say that lack of stimulus breeds contempt. If religious tradition wants to remain relevant, it needs to remain stimulating. It's the same with personal relationships, yes? Stimulate or go stale.

Consider the adage once again: familiarity breeds contempt. If that is the case, then how do you solve the problem?

Over to you, JustinO. Hehe.

JustinO'Shea said...

Gary. . .that is excellent. I love it. AND yeah, thou hast said it.

Now once you come up with the solution all the heads of religious establishments will beat a path deep into the soil to consult with and sit at your feet to drink in your wisdom.

Never mind the questions. . .what is the answer?!

justino of the charmed life

Gary Kelly said...

I was hoping you could tell me. But since you're doing the asking, lemme think about it.

Meanwhile, maybe someone else can provide the answer. J?

Anonymous said...

Justin wrote: "Never mind the questions. . .what is the answer?!"

Obvious, the answer has been around for quite some time now..... 42

Greg in the City of Churches

Coop said...

Okay, Justin. I think you used too much jargon. But don't be sorry. There's a Benedictine Boy who thinks he understands what you're trying to say.

J said...

What I meant, Gary, is that over a long period of time, usually centuries, human culture becomes so sophisticated that the old religious myths lose their ability to command the respect of the faithful. Polytheism in the West lost out midway through the Roman empire because monotheism seemed more logical. Now the sucessor Christian religions are losing adherents because intelligent people don't buy into the miracle stories, the notion that any human being could ever have been the "only begotten son" of the creative force in the universe, the conceptions of Satan, heaven, hell and the belief that God directly intervenes in the affairs of men. Yet knowing this, the organized religions are too vested in their mythologies to make the radical step Jefferson did when he cut, pasted and boiled the New Testament down to the ethical philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth. Why isn't that enough?
And then there's Islam, whose prophet devotes his magnum opus to engaging in a form of spiritual blackmail, and by promising non-adherents an everlasting fire, straightjackets modern humans into living a sixth century tribal lifestyle. (We won't go into his paradise of 72 virgins and date palms.) Even the major Eastern religions are loaded with strange mythology. All of this is indeed becoming passe, and I hope by the next century the only religious rite most folks will participate is staring at the stars on a cloudless night.

Gary Kelly said...

That's how it all started, J... some bloke staring at the stars on a cloudless night. :)