Monday, April 11, 2011

A Few Observations / Wonderings . . .

This post is like a Part 2 to the previous post on possibilities of relationship.   On a regular basis I post articles on various aspects of inter-personal relationships, with emphasis on the same-gender aspect of our relationships.

Each human being has innate needs which are part of our survival instincts.  We need to love and to be loved.  Much, if not most of our strivings are to fill these needs.  Without them we die.  That is simply a well proven given about being human.  Learning how to receive love and then, in turn, how to give love is the most basic preoccupation of our lives.

Look at the  amount of time, conniving, energy used in achieving that goal. . . . .and the like.

Here are three comments from our family members. . . .What do you think about this all important issue. . . I mean,  more than a simple "I agree" or "I approve this message" . . . .LOL  Thanks for your participation.
                                justin

 J  posted this comment ~
<< Interesting. I am especially intrigued by the study that showed gay men are bigger consumers of porn than other males, and that single gays at age 30 are considered washed up. Does that mean that we are constantly on the hunt for a new youthful conquest or thrill, and what impact does that have on the stability of gay relationships? This data tends to make those observations about the quest for the better penis sound valid. >>

                                                      ~~~~~~

Gary adds: << If I'd known in my youth and middle age the extent to which sex complicates relationships, particlarly gay relationships, I would have settled for friendships.

I realize I'm in the minority here, but that's cool. I'm not out to convince anyone of anything... other than how sweet and adorable I am. >>

                                                     ~~~~~~~~


Justin ponders. . :
Yes, makes me wonder about our "collective relational abilities", if that justly says it.  "are gays capable of any permanent relationship." 
Could we probably promise to our mate "as long as we both shall live" ?

Are gay people able to live well without ever new and enticing possibilities?

Is there somehow some sort of personality makeup which makes any permanence in relationship possible and viable "as long as we both shall live'?

Are we foundationally temperamentally so different from our heterosexual counterparts?


27 comments:

J said...

Does it not sound like something a psychologist should further research and answer?

Gary Kelly said...

Hehe.

Gary Kelly said...

Actually, it's all about certainty, isn't it. About knowing exactly what's in store, and being able to rely on it. About believing we have a stable relationship with someone we can trust. About Mr Right. About being able to plan for the future. About being secure. About knowing that we will go to Heaven after we die. About constantly being reassured that everything is okay.

Where's the sense of adventure in that?

I have a feeling life offers no such guarantees, and that it's a mistake to expect them.

Stew said...

I agree that gay men are considered washed up by 30. But washed up from the club scene is all. And the same could be said for our straight counterparts. But after 30 many men are over all that anyway and looking for something of more substance. No one wants to grow old but with any luck, we all do. And when we do, we have to start looking at the long term. I only wish that I had come out before I was washed up. Good thing I don't look my age.

As for porn usage, I find that total believable. We don't typically have sex that is of interest to us available in every movie ever made. Or advertisements that through it in our face. We have to go looking for it. And thanks to the wonders of the internet, we can.

So are gays capable of a true long term relationship? Yes. I've known several guys that have been together for 25 to 30 years. And while my mate of 11 years drives me crazy at times, I can't imagine my life without him and I hope that one day we can say that we've been together for 30 years or more.

JustinO'Shea said...

Yes, J. . .true..iamvero. ;-) But before I do I like to talk with the experts, all of our resident authorities for their valuable 'experience, strength and hope'. Then with my mind slightly biased I can begin the broader research.

Yes, Mr Kelly, "he he he "

jos

JustinO'Shea said...

Thanks, Stew, for your excellent contribution. This is the type of stuff I am looking for to help set directions or narrow the parameters a bit. Excellent.

justin

JustinO'Shea said...

And YES, Gary, it IS about certainty. . . .without having to sing that song from Moma Mia "Take a chance on me. . " Look how unsecure the various relationships in that scenario were!

The movie makes it all look like fun n games. . .but oh the agonies underlying the gamee!

There is risk involved. . .lots of "what if..?". . .and ultimately it is a matter of faith, trusting, risking. . .for love, for time and eternity. . .yes, all this and Heaven too. . following your idiom.haha [tongue heavily in cheek. . .kinda. . ]

JustinO'Shea said...

Hello Justin,

Your post reminds me of a notion, paraphrased here, from Alan Paton--

To love and to be loved--they make up for it all.
Some people disagee and say they are it all,
but even though I have been lucky
I have not been that lucky.

Your longest-term relationships are part of your grounding, your continuity with the earth and its natural processes. Your fantasies are airborn exercises, forays into art and artifice, the stuff of smiles, quickening pulses, and ephemeral imaginings. The art of living well will include both--the greatest amount of freedom, with the greatest amount of order.
Like other good art, it can inspire awe.

Jonathan

Anonymous said...

I've never had that "someone" that I have ever wanted as a long term partner. (The only one I have ever wanted, and still want is in a heterosexual marriage, but that's another story)

So I have no committed partnership from which I can draw upon to make a meaningful comment.

I'm no help here, other than to say that I certainly would and could be in a permanent partnership. I have no doubt gay men can have such a relationship. I have no doubt I would be, if the opportunity had arisen, so to speak...lol

As for consumers of porn....hell...haha, maybe if I did have that permanent someone I'd not consume the mountains of porn that I do...lol.

GreginAdelaide

Anonymous said...

Does everybody forget that heterosexual people sleep around... jump from relationship to relationship as well?
"The grass is always greener on the other side"... people begin to take each other for granted, etc.
I don't think we are so different in temperament from heterosexual people. The fact that there are many stable gay couples speaks to that.

I'm sorry... but this topic makes NO sense. The man I care about most in the world is straight; so what do I know anyway?

Coop said...

I believe that Gay men can be in a permanent, lasting relationship.
Why not? :)

Maybe some of this has to do with the past? Back THEN, Gay men couldn't be public about their sexuality. Two guys living together, dining out together, grocery shopping together... that was unheard of, unwelcome.

Anonymous said...

Hey "Anonymous", the one who posted just under my "GreginAdelaide" comment, yes, that is a GOOD point, an amazingly larger percentage of straights certainly do sleep around. I wonder how many of them stay together afterwards/during "because of the kids" rather than move on.
Gay couples mostly have no such ties and probably more of "us" do move on when the flavour has gone out the relationship.

I don't think this subject was really an "us" versus "them" comparison anyway, I nearly slipped into that minefield...haha.

...and you are a kidred spirit, in love with a straight. I know the confusion/pain/longing, I know it very well....and it has been a long term "relationship" that he an I have had. Both of us are committed to each other, there is a lot not spoken, but then a lot does not need to be spoken. We both know each other's feelings and the simple fact remains that he is straight. And the other fact remains that our "relationship" is for life, an unconsumated life.

Justin's statement "We need to love and to be loved. Much, if not most of our strivings are to fill these needs. Without them we die. That is simply a well proven given about being human. Learning how to receive love and then, in turn, how to give love is the most basic preoccupation of our lives."

Yeps, that "preoccupation" is for most of us, if not all, THE main occupation, is it not?

I've found my own love, and my own person who does love me, if not fully as I'd like..haha, but that is okay, I can live with that. I'll take what I can get. I've never felt a love as strong for anyone like I love him and I know he does ahve a strong love, a lasting love for me, just not physical, he's straight.

Ah, yes, that opening statement I made in my original post was confusing, I should have said "I've never had a physical relationship with another guy who I have wanted to have a long term relationship with" ... because I do have that "someone" that I most certainly do have as a "partner" ...of sorts, long term too, just not physical.

Confusing?
Probably, heehee. But "anonymous" has shown that there are at least two of us here who have a straight as the object of their attention. Nice to know I'm not alone.

So, strangely enough, this subject has turned into one that does interest me.

GreginAdelaide

Coop said...

Hey wait... I stopped off in mid-thought :p Not the first time that's happened.
So if man/man couplings were not tolerated like woman/man couplings,
two men may have been afraid to build a relationship. How could they commit to each other if they had to run around in total secrecy?

In the end, I agree with anonymous. I don't think there's much substance in this topic. It all depends on the individual man and what he's looking for. I don't think Gay people are inherently different.
My same-sex attraction Does NOT give me an excuse to be promiscuous.

I'm done with this topic :p

Gary Kelly said...

I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works. Hehe.

I too have been madly in love with straight guys. And looking back, I suspect it was a cop out.

Being madly in love with a straight guy means we're safe. We don't have to commit to a sexual relationship and the responsibilities attached thereto. We always have an excuse to remain at arm's length.

If the straight guy suddenly changed his mind, declared his undying love for you, threw you onto the bed and made mad passionate love to you, what then?

Hehe.

You would no longer be safe. You would no longer have an excuse to avoid being intimate... of taking that final step to commitment.

If we always want what we can't have, then conversely perhaps we don't want what we can.

Something to ponder.

JustinO'Shea said...

Excellent spanner, Gary. . . esp for a "topic of no sense and no substance". .. . . huaaaaahhhhh LOL

Oh my buddies, I think there is a great deal of substance to this topic. . . .else I'd not have posted it...hehhee. . . but more so from the number of comments.

I think this can be a threatening topic also. . . .setting off a few buttons and alarms. Nonne? ;-)

Thanks all for your sharings. I am learning from you and will stash your wisdom in my private file, , ,ho ho ho. . .for future perusal.

justin

Coop said...

I keep flipping back and forth. Does this topic have No substance?
Or is there a great deal of substance to it?

I don't think we can let statistics and finding in studies, etc. serve as an excuse or deterrent to a steady relationship.

"It says here that Gay men are always searching for a new thrill. I love him dearly, but I guess I can give up on him? I'm a Gay man, after all."

Ummm... NO.

Coop said...

Who says that every expression of love requires sex? I remember we had a great discussion before about eros vs. agape and all that jazz. Maybe anonymous is clinging to his straight friend... shutting out all other possibilities. Then again, maybe he isn't?

Anonymous said...

Gary, I'd never thought of that, but I can assure you, it most certainly does not apply to me. I've made my "position" quite clear to him...and amzingly enough our friendship has flourished into something much more than that...only not physical.

I've also made my sexuality known to quite a few close friends... in various circumstances..hee hee, so I'm not scared.
And I'm certainly not scared of a committment.

I've never needed an excuse not to be intimate. Most certainly not!

Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone "copping out" like that.

But then, since I've never before considered it could happen, so I need a bit more time to see the possibility...if it is real...is it?

Or are you being the Devil's advocate again Gary?

GreginAdelaide

RADICALJOE said...

To All My Family,
You are the best friends I have
ever had. Being Gay-Bi was a
hard thing to Admit. I am honest
with myself and am proud of taking
the right road and admitting it.
I believe that Gay people are
more truthful and really know what
real Love is. Wish that I had
been truthful with myself before,
I Married. God made what He made
and if we don't like our lives,
than I don't think we Love Him. I Thank you Justin,for your kind help and everyone that make up this good and great family.
Joe Galant

Gary Kelly said...

The devil's advocate? Who me? Tsk, tsk.

No, I'm just pondering the difference between conscious and sub-conscious decisions.

Coop said...

I should not have been grouchy about this topic and I apologize.

My sincerely held belief is that mere boredom, stale air... whatever you want to call it... is not a valid reason to walk away from a relationship.
We all watch people sky dive, base jump, bungee jump... etc. etc. There is a line between thrill seeking and self destruction.

I ask: Why CAN'T Gay men be a committed and lasting relationship?? ;-)

Coop who is guzzling caffeine and getting stuff done

Anonymous said...

Coop wrote: "I ask: Why CAN'T Gay men be a committed and lasting relationship?? ;-)"

Of course they can, and do.

Justin asked us

"are gays capable of any permanent relationship."
Could we probably promise to our mate "as long as we both shall live" ?

Are gay people able to live well without ever new and enticing possibilities?

Is there somehow some sort of personality makeup which makes any permanence in relationship possible and viable "as long as we both shall live'?"

Are we foundationally temperamentally so different from our heterosexual counterparts?"

My answer is..... no, I don't think so.
Circumstance has more to do with it rather than basic differences in "our" being.

GreginAdelaide (not that other "anonymous" blogger, maybe it's time I had a proper identity so as not to confuse when someone else signs in with an anonymous "anonymous)

JustinO'Shea said...

Good idea, Greg-in-Adelaide. . .so we do not confuse you with other Annonymouses. . . hehe

Why, you could be SweetAdelaide. . or Sweet Adeline or Y'everlaid-inAdelaide

I am being silly. . a bit tired. . yawn. . and ready for bed. Imagine me going to bed..for sleep. at 10pm! LOL

Coolish, wet, damp, chilly as in cold. . .that dirty word. . .haha I need to snuggle into my comfy bedy-bye and pull up the duvee. . .
hope you all sleep with a duvee. hehe

good night, All Y'All.

zzzzzzzz

grogger said...

Sweet dreams...and I'm testing my new profile....that's all.

GreginAdelaide (just to be sure to be sure)

JustinO'Shea said...

Hey there. . .welcome GROGGER. . . cool. . .nice to meet you Mr Grogger. . LOL
Whatever the moniker I like the guy using it. Wish we lived closer by, I'd love the chance to hang out with you, pick your thoughts, just chatter over a cuppa. . .or green tea and lemonade. . . by some called an Arnold Palmer. .it's my current cold drink this Spring. . . .and when I go out I can get it at a bar. . .not heavy into soda/tonic/soft drink. . ..that stuff. I don't do alcohol: 'lethal' potion for me, I've learned. But right now the green tea and tart lemonade does it for me nicely.. . .except I can mix my own brew much less expensively than at the bar or clubs. . . .hmmm. . .maybe I ought to "byob". . ..hahahaaa. . .doubt they'd let me in. . .well, I could strap the 'skin' to the inside of my leg hahahhaaa.[how would I ever keep it cold???] . .they haven't come to body pat-downs to get in. yet. .I'm afraid it'd turn into full scale gropes at some places. . .with certain hands-on duudes. LOL

I'm over tired and mouthy. .lmsao

grogger said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coop said...

Yes I sleep with a duvet but I think it's a poor substitute for a boyfriend :b

My drink of choice this morning is Komodo dragon blend from Staaaabucks. Best blend in the world.