Monday, February 13, 2012


This post first appeared on Justin Dunes  in November 2009.  Often enough when Blogger posts stats and comments about blog contents this article is shown as one of the most frequently visited pages on JustinDunes .  I looked it over again this morning and decided to "Play it again, Sam". . .and see what you may be thinking on the topic today.  So please, feel free to express your own feeling and ideas about this and similar topics.  Thanks.  justin

REGULAR GUYS. . . . . .

so, GUYS, what do you make of this notion? An actualized program for "ordinary guys", , gay/bi/what-have-you? Check it out and share your thoughts with the rest of us. I know, for me, this is a forum which helps me broaden, re-assess, change my thinking about issues. We need 'guy talk' to help us vent ideas and feelings and inter-relate with others. Thanks. 

Mission Statement
Why a group for masculine gay men
"In the 22 years I've been reading personal ads, I've never once read one that says, 'GWM seeks bitchy queen for LTR.'"
In other words...

There's more than one way to be gay!
Why a group for masculine guys?

Most gay men find masculinity attractive
(Check the personal ads if you have any doubt.) Yet gay culture assumes that we all grew up "different", that we’re "sisters under the skin". This leads to one of the paradoxes of gay culture: a lot of men who ridicule "traditional" masculinity (which they equate with repression), even as they lust after Troy Aikman or Ben Affleck. Yes, campy bitchiness can be a valid option (it’s a free country), but it doesn‘t come naturally (or seem very attractive) to a lot of us
Summer Softball
We don’t all have the same interests.
Camp, drag, & divas are as foreign to some of us as football and car repair are to others. There are many masculine gay guys who can’t relate to gay culture. We frequently have a very different "take" on what it means to be both a man and gay man. We often are not connected to the gay community, which, in turn, tends to view us with some suspicion (they say we’re "not gay enough"; we’re "repressed"). Well, we think you shouldn’t have to apologize for having a masculine slant.


Coop said...
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like what they say on their stereotypes page: "It’s a sad fact that some gay people buy into – even cling to – the very stereotypes they often complain about."

There are Questioning/ Gay teen boys out there watching Will &Grace, seeing gay male masculinity personified in Porn (emphasis on leather and mustaches), and the character in Legally Blonde who could pick out last season's Prada... These poor boys probably model themselves on that. How do I know this?? I'm talking about me.

Luckily, my college experiences intervened and let me form my own identity. Shannon, Justin, my fellows in online communities, and EVEN my str8 and supportive FRIENDS have helped.

How do I face the GAY community without shame though?
J said...
Sure sounds worthwhile to me, and long overdue.
Gary Kelly said...
If I wanted someone who walked and talked funny I'd get a girlfriend.
Stew said...
I was actually part of a gay camping and social club for a few years. Of which the members were never much to look at if you like the typical gay guy. I dread to say that I was the token gay guy in the club.

It was a great idea and we did a lot of wonderful things. It really helped me build myself as a man as well as accept myself as gay.

The club had it's management problems and is now gone, but I made a lot of lasting friendships from it.

I would be very happy to see this group succeed. Something like this can be a huge help to gay Men everywhere.
Justin Dunes said...
I appreciate your comments. Learning. Good to hear how others feel.
One area where I am most uncomfortable and and with which I do not identify is the whole annual Gay Pride days and parades. I do not want others to think "Justin is like that?!"

The antics I have seen and heard about which disgust me the most is denigrating, mocking, tearing down those who do not agree with us.

I know glbt folk have suffered much from uninformed church people of the various stripes. And I am opposed to their scare/threat tactics. . .and most of all opposed to the shame and guilt these types have fostered "in the name of God." [I can almost hear God saying "Don't blame me. Was never any of my doing!"]

As a Catholic gay man, I am piss-angered by sme of the tasteless antics in some places to denigate, disparage, mock, criticize religious beliefs. We acquire nothing by violence done to others.

Specifically I have in mind the profanity of missuing/degrading objects which people of faith hold
sacred. Examples: hunky guys with a crucifix sticking out of their speedos. Prayer beads prominently displayed on near-naked bodies simulating f''king and oral sex.

I mind seeing religious garments paraded mockingly, and effegies of pope and bishops shamefully mocked.
I strenuously oppose -- regardless of the charities they reportedly do--- the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence from San Francisco. The mockery of the thousands of American nuns,sisters religious wowmen is totally unconscionable.

I am ashamed to have people even think I might support and worse be like that!

In the films, documentaries, TV programs I have seen about the Civil Rights Movement never did I see any actions /antics used which tore down or disrespected anyone! I can understand African-Americans not wanting Gay Pride to be associated in any way with the Civil Rights movement. There are too many times when we GAY PEOPLE are our own worst enemies! If we want respect and acceptance then we must be ready to accept and respect those who think differently from us. Verbal and mocking violence gain nothing for us but what that deserves.

All I know of the Gay Festivities in the Land of Oz downunder is what I saw on Shannon's blog and a few alied video clips. I didn't see any of the poor taste displays I've seen here in the US of A. We don't even do such things at home in Provincetown, that Gay Mecca of the North East.

The example of being gay I have seen from Sydney, for example, and from Shannon in his blog and conduct. . .with these I can and do identify. I have come to love and respect the gay man Shannon as he shows himself to us in his blog and in his one-to-one contacts. Likewise, the examples I see here from guys who post on my blog make me glad to call you friends.

We are all different. . . and thank God for that. . . I just don't want to be lumped with the sleaze and tawdry crap of the pseudo gay community. Do I think I am better or superior to them? I hope not! But I will say I am different. Even if I were judged to be a cheap tramp I hope I'd be me with dignity and a bit of class! hahahahaaa

Here my 6.5 cents. . LOL
Gary Kelly said...
Well said, Justin. I've always thought gay pride was way over the top. Just because the opposition is a bunch of loonies doesn't mean we should mimic them.

I believe that gay pride should be no different to straight pride or any other kind of pride. Pride is not about putting the other guy down, it's about strutting your stuff. It's not about being negative, it's about being positive. It's not about being superior, it's about being equal.

And that's my 6.5 cents worth.
JustinO'Shea said...
Thanks, Gary, for your comments and support. I like your assurances I am not totally off the wall. .sometimes..hmmm. . .maybe a bit but not totally. lol
It helps my self-confidence.
JustinO'Shea said...
COOP dude. .. .this leaves me curious.. ."How do I face the GAY community without shame though?"

You face me without shame, right? You face other guys without shame? We are all part of the GAY community.

WHY would you feel shame? Got any real reason? You do something mean, vile, vicious, violent, destructive, etc?

I hear you saying NO. OK, why do you feel shame? If you do, then it is your own choice. WHY would you choose to feel shame?

In a similar situation a buddy used to say "Can I watch?" Pissed me off. So I changed.



Coop said...

A stroll down memory lane. loverly.
I'm not facing the gay community anymore... shamefully or otherwise.
I don't have to be "approved" :-}

Stew said...

My friends son recently came out at the age of 14! He just turned 15 and decided to not only come out to his class a school, but did so in a speech class in front of 30 other kids. The teacher is proud of the fact that she had created an environment where he felt comfortable doing so.
I am proud to be taking him him to his first pride parade in Dallas in September where he can witness for himself the reality of his speech. He spoke of finding himself and realizing that there are as many different types of gays as there are different types of people. He, like a lot of us did not want to be known as gay because of the steriotypes. And even at his young age has discovered that first he must be himself. The rest will come naturally.
A lesson we could all learn.

GreginAdelaide said...

Cannot say that I disagree with any of the comments expressed.

I chose not to face any community when it came to my sexuality. Gay or straight.
I chose to face individuals.

Not all individuals, just the ones I select.

That's my way of creating my own space ..... hmmm...
I guess I created my own personal "community" Iafter all....hee hee!

GreginAdelaide said...

Ah, I forgot to say Coop, that was well said, I don't care about approval of faceless "others" either.
Stuff em!

Coop said...

"We often are not connected to the gay community, which, in turn, tends to view us with some suspicion (they say we’re "not gay enough"; we’re "repressed").
That sentence sticks out to me. I have felt "not gay enough"/ disconnected from the gay community. I was also worried about how the community would react to me. Hence the shame. I don't think the community is suspicious. If gay guys are running around telling others they are repressed, I think that's wrong. Because suddenly it turns into high school. The cool kids table. I've tried to educate myself about the idea that gay people stop adhering to heterosexual social and cultural norms etc. etc. etc. And I can't make sense of it.
Yeah some heterosexual social norms don't include us. Like the concept of "marriage". But the meaning behind the word has always been evolving. I'd like to see Michelle Bachman tell a heterosexual Boston lady that she is subservient to her husband. heehee.
What am I saying here? Being gay doesn't mean we have to reinvent everything. Something like that.

Stew I'm proud of your friend. He has the right attitude and he has my spiritual support.

GreginAdelaide said...

Wow Coop!
Theres a lot in there that we have to work on...haha!

I've re-read what you posted several times....and went back to the original article to see if that helped....but all I come up with are more questions than answers.

I'd need to make dot points from your statments and think some more before it makes sense and to comment...or even ask questions, there was so much in there! (grinning)