Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Our LOve is Better. . .VIDEO . . discussion 10.21.09

A few days ago I posted a video re: gay intimacy, love, affection. Several good comments were posted. This one from Gary Kelly raised an interesting issue about his reaction. My inquisitive mind picked up on this and I've been tossing it around at odd moments.

Gary Kelly said...

I watched the whole thing through even though I found it a little confronting, despite being alone in front of my computer screen. It's hard to shake the era from which I was raised; a time when intimacy between males was taboo.

And you know something weird? When I see stuff like that in a porn movie, it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when it's legit. Hehe.

There ya go.

My question is WHY? I solicit your ideas, comments, opinions.
Is it perhaps because in watching porn we know we we are voyeurs, even as it draws us in, as it were. Whereas maybe watching the 'affection video' we know we like a part of an intimacy where we do not belong. . . that watching a couple - str8 or gay - being intimate is something or a place we do not belong.

Can you decipher my point here? I find it hard still to verbalize what I sense. I'd really appreciate any and all insights you might have. I think what Gary tells us is an important factor. . . . and I'd like to learn from this. . .from you.



J said...

Its more than intruding on someone' space, which a lot of people were brought up to respect, especially if sexual relations are involved. I also think that older persons remain uncomfortable with open expression of gay love because of homophobia.

Gary Kelly said...

J's got a point. I lived in gay communities in Sydney but never got used to seeing guys holding hands and expressing affection in public.

I'm not sure if it's a homophobic reaction or a hangover from my upbringing. It just seems odd to me. And yes, even unnatural.

I've written a couple of books about gay/bi relationships, two of them biographies. The characters spend about 80% of their time bashing the crap out of each other, and the rest of the time making up hehe.

It's not easy for me to dismiss the stereotypes I was brought up with. Boys in blue, girls in pink.

I think in a way, the difference between watching a video of guys kissing and whatever, and watching porn, is something like the difference between a Hollywood movie and a documentary. One is fantasy and the other is real. And real can be far more confronting than fiction.

Ya know, if Batman and Robin had been gay when I was a kid, my thinking would be very different now.

Be careful of what you put into the heads of your children, dear Breth, because it could stay there forever.

loki4469 said...

I am not sure I agree with J's point about the older persons being homophobic, I think it is more like they are mentally conditioned by the times, people and area's they were raise in. I am 41 years old and raised in the upper northeast and there just wasn't a lot of open affection shown and this affect how I view situations of intimacy. Where as porn I just see as entertainment.

Stew said...

I think that it borders on the lines of what we think is normal. However, I have always been uncomfortable watching the love scenes of any movie. I actually was not as uncomfortable watching that as I have always been watching straight scenes. That was obviously clips from a movie. And yes, to watch that in person might be a bit odd, but movies are completely different, much as the porn is viewed as entertainment, so is any movie.

JustinO'Shea said...

Good points, gents. Thaanks. more..more...more. . hehehe

J says he thinks "older persons remain uncomfortable with open expressions of gay love because of homophobia."

Do you mean the person's own homophobia or the rather collective homophobia of society? We ourselves may not be homophobic but we definitely are affected/touched by the social homophobia! We've learned to be safe, cautious, protective. . who wants to be mocked or beat on? ;-)

I am not uncomfortable seeing others holding hands or walking arm-in-arn, arm around the other, aa kiss 'n a peck, etc. Seems normal to me. . . .but then, look what I've seen since I was little.
Dad always hugged and kissed me We all hug and kiss our friends welcoming or saying goodbye.

However I am not comfortable with people necking, fondling gropping, humping, fronting, etc. . whether gay or str8. That kind of intimacy and passion are private. When this happens often enough someone will call out "Get a room!"

I had a literature teacher in freshman college. . an older woman, a Catholic Sister. [No I do not attend a Catholic university, but we do have a diverse faculty. They seek out excellence. Sr Mercy fit that category!] She told us this: "Re: sex, literature talks about life, human activity, people, sexuality. Pornography makes us participate." I think that is a fine distinction. Makes it clear for me. ;-)

And I agree with Gary's comments about upbringing. In psych the way we look at reality is called our perceptual field. . which is shaped/formed by past experiences we have had, things we've learned from others, and our own present fears and desires. Changing our minds doesn't come easily. We are pretty well shaped by the age of three, long before schools get their hands on us. hehehehe

I'm waiting for more. . . ;-)

ciao ~ justin

Coop said...

I agree with the homophobia argument. Then again, I'm also not big on heterosexual PDA... Yucko!

How do I put this? Pornography does not "grab me" LOL as much as some dude in front of his own camera. There are some expections; i.e. a few videos on xtube, James Nichols, and Aaron Loftin. I'm weird like that.

I'm not sure if it is part of my "perceptual" field or not. There was PDA in my family... I think I'm resistant to heterosexual PDA because I don't play for that team.
My friends, even the heterosexual couples, don't really kiss each other in public.

Gary Kelly said...

Yeah.. perceptual field. Interesting point, but I didn't realize it was pretty well established by age 3.

Maybe my problem stems from the fact that I never saw my parents kiss or hug - not ever. Not so much as a peck on the cheek. There was no affection whatsoever displayed at home, not even by my 3 brothers and their girlfriends. Come to think of it, they didn't even hold hands.

JustinO'Shea said...

Given you home-style you aren't surprised by your feelings about "public displays", are you?

Apparently no one modeled affection for you at all. If there was a lot of good old Irish Jansennism aka Puritanism in the air, attitudes toward sex, romance, affection never ever surfaced or was expressed. A couple did "their duty" and had kids, and pretended pleasure and good healthy sexual play didn't exist. . . .tsk tsk tsk. . .

Lucky you found out otherwise, I would assume. ;-) The taboos of the past are hard to shake, the sexperts tell us.

You comment about being careful about what we teach our children. . verbally and non-verbally is right dead on!