Perfectly the correct intention of the message that is part of the teachings, the message, of religion. What people are meant to live by.
So why is it so complicated. Why do so many of religous teachers, ministers, pastors, bishops, popes, rabbis, etc....why don't they all say the same thing?
As an outsider, a non-religous person, I can see the simple message the guidance, the rules we should strive to live by. It is so simple. There is no ambiguity in any of it that I recall, but then it has been a lot of years since I did read any of it.
So how the hell does mankind stuff it up? How can it be that hard? The message is too clear to get wrong.
I don't know.....and neither does anyone I suspect, or else we'd not be having this conversation.
Yes, it matters, JustinO. You see, I like to understand both sides of an issue. It's my nature. I like to question things.
For example, Jesus didn't welcome sinners because he wanted them to remain sinners. Yeah?
So, I wondered about Father Jim's motive in being an "ally" of gays and lesbians. Does he believe that homosexuality is a sin or not? Yes or no. That's all I want.
OKAY. . . then you need to write and ask him. From stuff I've read by him I suspect he doesnt deal in Yes/No....Black/White.
Sin isn't this act or that act. . .sin is in the general attitude we carry in our heart/mind. . .it lies in a disposition or stance of choice and decision. . .
A quick example: the social sins of our society/political/military choices/decisions are never black and white. . yes or no. . .
So why is it so complicated. Why do so many of religous teachers, ministers, pastors, bishops, popes, rabbis, etc....why don't they all say the same thing.
Interpretation, Greg. It's all a matter of interpretation. I tried to explain that before but Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick.
The reason I don't use LOL or hahahaha in my stuff is because I hope people can see the humor without my having to belt them over the head with a bat.
The ills of the world are caused basically by people who say "my interpretation is better than yours".
People are "blessed" with the innate ability to hear and see what they want.
Unfortunately God (or whoever, if you believe) made us far from perfect.
Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired.
All we can do is live with it and do the best we can. We are faulty design, faulty product, someone ought to take us back and demand a better model. If you believe there is that 'someone".
On another slant, Gary, you had me laughing at the mental image conjured by your text: "Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick" You do enjoy baiting people, just that tiny little bit.
Sorry Justin, he/we is an evil man ....lol.
And Gary, there is a place for the lols and hahas. Why? Interpretation.
Maybe you ought to consider using them a bit to avoid misinterpretation ...... when you aren't looking for it, you evil man you.....ha! (get it?)
I listened to this three times, and what I got each time was the "official Vatican position on Homosexual persons." Every person has dignity, every person was created by God, et cetera. I have to agree this cleric said nothing new, and nothing about "acting on your homosexuality is ok." The Roman Catholic Church maintains that homosexuality itself is not a sin, but ACTING on homosexual impulses is a sin. Like masturbation is a sin because it isn't for the procreation of life. Like heterosexual sex with a condom is a sin because it prohibits the possibility of procreation.
Additionally, the Church teaches that despair is a bad thing because it can lead to suicide (a sin) or might mean a lack of faith in God's all-knowing and all-controlling wisdom. To dispair is to have lost faith in God. Another sin.
I think it was a nice piece, but he just coated the official position with a little sugar coating.
I got the message that "it gets better" because you as a teeager grow as a person and in mind, and come to see the wisdom of the teachings of Mother Church.
Justin, forgive me, ok? This is how I feel about it.
I cannot find Gary's post where he described "Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick"
I've used too much time searching out the texr from Gary. This line above I lifted from Greg's comment.
I too find that funny. . .sorta. .except that is struck some stuff that has passed this way before. GARY: How would you like me to act/react to something I feel deeply about, that is important to me? After all I am 1/3 your age and haven't lived long enough to react like you do. . .and likely I will not when I am 66. LOL
I have to agree with Greg. I wish I knew when you are teasing or laughing; it is not always clear. Since all we have is words I think using some sort of ikon.. smiley, LOL, or ho ho ho. . whatever, would help me know just how you are saying things.
I have a hard time writing this to you, Gary, but I feel I must say this. Twice I have removed a post from you, coming on the heels of something I posted. Why? Because I was offended. . .you seem to have a penchant for ridiculing things I post which are serious to me, or sacred, or important. .. and the life.
To be honest I feel intimidated by you, often enough because I do not know where you are coming from. . and for me, it seems a kind of bullying because I am afraid to look silly or ridiculous in the face of others who post on my blog.
You may think I go over the top, or however it has been said I did, again, today on issues important to me. Often enough I refrain from posting things I really want to because I don't want to look silly.
Gary I find this difficult to write to you because of your age and the respect and courtesy I think I owe you. But please begin to bend a little. . let us know if it is supposed to be humorous, funny. . .use LOL, use a ;-) or something. Don't just "slam dunk". . ..assuming I/we know where you are coming from.
I hope I am making myself clear: I do not want to keep on writing this stuff. I hope you understand what I am trying to say to you.
Thank you for all your comments and sharings. . . .but just remember 22yo doesn't always understand 66yo. There is a difference. . . ;-) I have much to learn and experience.
From where I sit I believe he loves playing the devil's advocate, and he does love stirring, in a most friendly and well-intentioned manner I am sure.
I don't think I've read him the wrong way....alhough I haven't seen the deleted stuff so I may be off the mark after all.
In my opinion, Gary is just a typical older, intelligent, impish, dry humoured Aussie stirrer.
Aussies are outspoken for the most part. Plain speaking, no need for the lols and hahas amongst us ...most of the time.
"Stirring" is an Aussie tradition, it is done in a friendly and sympathetic manner and to an outsider, or even a friend (for those few pregnant seconds) it can sound quite a serious attack, but between friends it is just 'funnin ya'.
Yes, Gary is a stirrer, like I am when amongst friends. He's plain speaking for the most part and leaves the interpretation of his humour to the reader.....but as you can see in my last reply to him, I suggested he does use the lols and hahas because I already suspected that sometimes he is misunderstood by you and perhaps others as being unfriendly and on the attack.
Gary, I hope you don't mind me speaking in your 'defence'.....not that Justin has attacked by any means. I don't think I've misunderstood you? Bloody hope not, or I'll come down the bloody line and job ya!!! Ha! (job = belt, hit etc another Aussie expression)
Justin, if I'm correct, I don't think he means it as an attack on you or your beliefs....he wants to make you think, to see other;s views and other ways of seeing things...and God or anyone help me if anything I've written is offensive to you or anyone!
Greg, sympathetic and saddened in Adelaide
BTW Gary's comment was the one above mine....and cheer up Justin. We all love you I am sure.
J did warn you about me, JustinO. However, I think 'intimidate' is a bit strong. Intimidation is not my motive.
Adeladian Greg has pretty much nailed it. But I would say my purpose is to make people think rather than to stir the pot for the sake of being controversial.
You see, the problem with being ultra sensitive about certain issues is that it can exclude other points of view. I think it's important to question all things, including one's own beliefs.
To question one's own faith in something can be dangerous, which is why the Church discourages it. But I don't see the point in believing in something that may not stack up. That's why I constantly question things, including my own convictions. I wanna know that what I believe is worth believing. And if I can convince myself 100% that what I believe is rock solid, then I don't have a problem with criticism. That said, I'm still happy to listen to arguments.
It's a process of elimination: eliminate all the doubts and you've got the facts. Scientific research does that kinda thing all the time. It's called an open mind.
Imagine if we could convince fanatics like suicide bombers to stop and listen; to take on board the other side of the argument; to question their own beliefs. John Lennon wrote a song called 'Imagine'... nice idea but it didn't change anything.
I think Greg summed it up when he said "Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired".
Greg's not as smart as me cos he's an Adelaide boy, but he's getting there.
Anyway, JustinO, you gotta get rid of this fear of looking silly or ridiculous. I've practically turned it into a career. If someone doesn't agree with you about something, so what? You can't go through life wrapped in cotton wool.
Do you want a blog that attracts a bunch of sycophants or do you want a blog that attracts different ideas? How can we learn if we shut our minds to other points of view?
If I intimidate you, JustinO, guess why that is?
Think about it. Anyway, it's taken ages to write this so you owe me 10 bucks.
J did warn you about me, JustinO. However, I think 'intimidate' is a bit strong. Intimidation is not my motive.
Adeladian Greg has pretty much nailed it. But I would say my purpose is to make people think rather than to stir the pot for the sake of being controversial.
You see, the problem with being ultra sensitive about certain issues is that it can exclude other points of view. I think it's important to question all things, including one's own beliefs.
To question one's own faith in something can be dangerous, which is why the Church discourages it. But I don't see the point in believing in something that may not stack up. That's why I constantly question things, including my own convictions. I wanna know that what I believe is worth believing. And if I can convince myself 100% that what I believe is rock solid, then I don't have a problem with criticism. That said, I'm still happy to listen to arguments.
It's a process of elimination: eliminate all the doubts and you've got the facts. Scientific research does that kinda thing all the time. It's called an open mind.
Imagine if we could convince fanatics like suicide bombers to stop and listen; to take on board the other side of the argument; to question their own beliefs. John Lennon wrote a song called 'Imagine'... nice idea but it didn't change anything.
I think Greg summed it up when he said "Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired".
Greg's not as smart as me cos he's an Adelaide boy, but he's getting there.
Anyway, JustinO, you gotta get rid of this fear of looking silly or ridiculous. I've practically turned it into a career. If someone doesn't agree with you about something, so what? You can't go through life wrapped in cotton wool.
Do you want a blog that attracts a bunch of sycophants or do you want a blog that attracts different ideas? How can we learn if we shut our minds to other points of view?
If I intimidate you, JustinO, guess why that is?
Think about it. Anyway, it's taken ages to write this so you owe me ten bucks.
Justin, as a public word of encouragement, always stand by your heartfelt convictions in sharing your thoughts through this 'blog' medium. It's a wonderful tool to get us all thinking and sharing! As a bit of an 'older' I guess one would say...I learn from 'youngers' like yourself. Your intelect and insite is so much a fuel for my heart as a person, Christian, Gay man. So, always, say what your heart leads. I appreciate you greatly. Stand up for those who are downtrodden, need love, direction and advise. I believe if we take what we learn and turn it to action for good we build on our future and can reach greater highs for each and every one we come in contact with.
....and I did say "he wants to make you think, to see other;s views and other ways of seeing things..."
Yes, an open mind is what everyone needs to foster. Too many people are rock solid in their views and beliefs....and I'm not talking religious beliefs here.....but you can include them too if you wish, I've an open mind on that one...ha!
And stirring about me being a dumb Adelaidian? Oh dear, you are in REAL trouble now!
There, you got me going this time, happy now? Good!
15 comments:
Perfectly simple in my opinion.
Perfectly the correct intention of the message that is part of the teachings, the message, of religion.
What people are meant to live by.
So why is it so complicated. Why do so many of religous teachers, ministers, pastors, bishops, popes, rabbis, etc....why don't they all say the same thing?
As an outsider, a non-religous person, I can see the simple message the guidance, the rules we should strive to live by. It is so simple. There is no ambiguity in any of it that I recall, but then it has been a lot of years since I did read any of it.
So how the hell does mankind stuff it up? How can it be that hard? The message is too clear to get wrong.
I don't know.....and neither does anyone I suspect, or else we'd not be having this conversation.
Frustrated Greg in Adelaide
Father Jim said he is an ally of gays and lesbians but neglected to say whether or not he supports homosexuality itself - the act.
Does it matter???
Does everything need to be dissected and spelled out.
Take fr Jim at his word. . .period. He is a good man. . .like you. DOn't pick him apart.
He says he is an ally. Take him on his word. What more does he need say?
justin
Yes, it matters, JustinO. You see, I like to understand both sides of an issue. It's my nature. I like to question things.
For example, Jesus didn't welcome sinners because he wanted them to remain sinners. Yeah?
So, I wondered about Father Jim's motive in being an "ally" of gays and lesbians. Does he believe that homosexuality is a sin or not? Yes or no. That's all I want.
OKAY. . . then you need to write and ask him. From stuff I've read by him I suspect he doesnt deal in Yes/No....Black/White.
Sin isn't this act or that act. . .sin is in the general attitude we carry in our heart/mind. . .it lies in a disposition or stance of choice and decision. . .
A quick example: the social sins of our society/political/military choices/decisions are never black and white. . yes or no. . .
See how I am leaning here?
So why is it so complicated. Why do so many of religous teachers, ministers, pastors, bishops, popes, rabbis, etc....why don't they all say the same thing.
Interpretation, Greg. It's all a matter of interpretation. I tried to explain that before but Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick.
The reason I don't use LOL or hahahaha in my stuff is because I hope people can see the humor without my having to belt them over the head with a bat.
The ills of the world are caused basically by people who say "my interpretation is better than yours".
And that's why lawyers charge a bloody fortune.
Yes Mr Kelly, indeed. interpretation.
People are "blessed" with the innate ability to hear and see what they want.
Unfortunately God (or whoever, if you believe) made us far from perfect.
Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired.
All we can do is live with it and do the best we can. We are faulty design, faulty product, someone ought to take us back and demand a better model. If you believe there is that 'someone".
On another slant, Gary, you had me laughing at the mental image conjured by your text:
"Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick" You do enjoy baiting people, just that tiny little bit.
Sorry Justin, he/we is an evil man ....lol.
And Gary, there is a place for the lols and hahas.
Why? Interpretation.
Maybe you ought to consider using them a bit to avoid misinterpretation ...... when you aren't looking for it, you evil man you.....ha! (get it?)
Cheers,
Greg in Adelaide
I listened to this three times, and what I got each time was the "official Vatican position on Homosexual persons." Every person has dignity, every person was created by God, et cetera. I have to agree this cleric said nothing new, and nothing about "acting on your homosexuality is ok." The Roman Catholic Church maintains that homosexuality itself is not a sin, but ACTING on homosexual impulses is a sin. Like masturbation is a sin because it isn't for the procreation of life. Like heterosexual sex with a condom is a sin because it prohibits the possibility of procreation.
Additionally, the Church teaches that despair is a bad thing because it can lead to suicide (a sin) or might mean a lack of faith in God's all-knowing and all-controlling wisdom. To dispair is to have lost faith in God. Another sin.
I think it was a nice piece, but he just coated the official position with a little sugar coating.
I got the message that "it gets better" because you as a teeager grow as a person and in mind, and come to see the wisdom of the teachings of Mother Church.
Justin, forgive me, ok? This is how I feel about it.
Hello EveryBody:
I cannot find Gary's post where he described "Justino did his jumping up and down in the one spot trick"
I've used too much time searching out the texr from Gary. This line above I lifted from Greg's comment.
I too find that funny. . .sorta. .except that is struck some stuff that has passed this way before.
GARY:
How would you like me to act/react to something I feel deeply about, that is important to me? After all I am 1/3 your age and haven't lived long enough to react like you do. . .and likely I will not when I am 66. LOL
I have to agree with Greg. I wish I knew when you are teasing or laughing; it is not always clear. Since all we have is words I think using some sort of ikon.. smiley, LOL, or ho ho ho. . whatever, would help me know just how you are saying things.
I have a hard time writing this to you, Gary, but I feel I must say this. Twice I have removed a post from you, coming on the heels of something I posted. Why? Because I was offended. . .you seem to have a penchant for ridiculing things I post which are serious to me, or sacred, or important. .. and the life.
To be honest I feel intimidated by you, often enough because I do not know where you are coming from. . and for me, it seems a kind of bullying because I am afraid to look silly or ridiculous in the face of others who post on my blog.
You may think I go over the top, or however it has been said I did, again, today on issues important to me. Often enough I refrain from posting things I really want to because I don't want to look silly.
Gary I find this difficult to write to you because of your age and the respect and courtesy I think I owe you. But please begin to bend a little. . let us know if it is supposed to be humorous, funny. . .use LOL, use a ;-) or something. Don't just "slam dunk". . ..assuming I/we know where you are coming from.
I hope I am making myself clear: I do not want to keep on writing this stuff. I hope you understand what I am trying to say to you.
Thank you for all your comments and sharings. . . .but just remember 22yo doesn't always understand 66yo. There is a difference. . . ;-) I have much to learn and experience.
ciao. . ciao. . .
justino
Oh Justin, I'm CERTAIN Gary means no harm.
From where I sit I believe he loves playing the devil's advocate, and he does love stirring, in a most friendly and well-intentioned manner I am sure.
I don't think I've read him the wrong way....alhough I haven't seen the deleted stuff so I may be off the mark after all.
In my opinion, Gary is just a typical older, intelligent, impish, dry humoured Aussie stirrer.
Aussies are outspoken for the most part. Plain speaking, no need for the lols and hahas amongst us ...most of the time.
"Stirring" is an Aussie tradition, it is done in a friendly and sympathetic manner and to an outsider, or even a friend (for those few pregnant seconds) it can sound quite a serious attack, but between friends it is just 'funnin ya'.
Yes, Gary is a stirrer, like I am when amongst friends. He's plain speaking for the most part and leaves the interpretation of his humour to the reader.....but as you can see in my last reply to him, I suggested he does use the lols and hahas because I already suspected that sometimes he is misunderstood by you and perhaps others as being unfriendly and on the attack.
Gary, I hope you don't mind me speaking in your 'defence'.....not that Justin has attacked by any means. I don't think I've misunderstood you? Bloody hope not, or I'll come down the bloody line and job ya!!! Ha! (job = belt, hit etc another Aussie expression)
Justin, if I'm correct, I don't think he means it as an attack on you or your beliefs....he wants to make you think, to see other;s views and other ways of seeing things...and God or anyone help me if anything I've written is offensive to you or anyone!
Greg, sympathetic and saddened in Adelaide
BTW Gary's comment was the one above mine....and cheer up Justin. We all love you I am sure.
Thanks, Greg. I appreciate it.
justin
J did warn you about me, JustinO. However, I think 'intimidate' is a bit strong. Intimidation is not my motive.
Adeladian Greg has pretty much nailed it. But I would say my purpose is to make people think rather than to stir the pot for the sake of being controversial.
You see, the problem with being ultra sensitive about certain issues is that it can exclude other points of view. I think it's important to question all things, including one's own beliefs.
To question one's own faith in something can be dangerous, which is why the Church discourages it. But I don't see the point in believing in something that may not stack up. That's why I constantly question things, including my own convictions. I wanna know that what I believe is worth believing. And if I can convince myself 100% that what I believe is rock solid, then I don't have a problem with criticism. That said, I'm still happy to listen to arguments.
It's a process of elimination: eliminate all the doubts and you've got the facts. Scientific research does that kinda thing all the time. It's called an open mind.
Imagine if we could convince fanatics like suicide bombers to stop and listen; to take on board the other side of the argument; to question their own beliefs. John Lennon wrote a song called 'Imagine'... nice idea but it didn't change anything.
I think Greg summed it up when he said "Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired".
Greg's not as smart as me cos he's an Adelaide boy, but he's getting there.
Anyway, JustinO, you gotta get rid of this fear of looking silly or ridiculous. I've practically turned it into a career. If someone doesn't agree with you about something, so what? You can't go through life wrapped in cotton wool.
Do you want a blog that attracts a bunch of sycophants or do you want a blog that attracts different ideas? How can we learn if we shut our minds to other points of view?
If I intimidate you, JustinO, guess why that is?
Think about it. Anyway, it's taken ages to write this so you owe me 10 bucks.
J did warn you about me, JustinO. However, I think 'intimidate' is a bit strong. Intimidation is not my motive.
Adeladian Greg has pretty much nailed it. But I would say my purpose is to make people think rather than to stir the pot for the sake of being controversial.
You see, the problem with being ultra sensitive about certain issues is that it can exclude other points of view. I think it's important to question all things, including one's own beliefs.
To question one's own faith in something can be dangerous, which is why the Church discourages it. But I don't see the point in believing in something that may not stack up. That's why I constantly question things, including my own convictions. I wanna know that what I believe is worth believing. And if I can convince myself 100% that what I believe is rock solid, then I don't have a problem with criticism. That said, I'm still happy to listen to arguments.
It's a process of elimination: eliminate all the doubts and you've got the facts. Scientific research does that kinda thing all the time. It's called an open mind.
Imagine if we could convince fanatics like suicide bombers to stop and listen; to take on board the other side of the argument; to question their own beliefs. John Lennon wrote a song called 'Imagine'... nice idea but it didn't change anything.
I think Greg summed it up when he said "Struggle as we might, man's faults are hard-wired".
Greg's not as smart as me cos he's an Adelaide boy, but he's getting there.
Anyway, JustinO, you gotta get rid of this fear of looking silly or ridiculous. I've practically turned it into a career. If someone doesn't agree with you about something, so what? You can't go through life wrapped in cotton wool.
Do you want a blog that attracts a bunch of sycophants or do you want a blog that attracts different ideas? How can we learn if we shut our minds to other points of view?
If I intimidate you, JustinO, guess why that is?
Think about it. Anyway, it's taken ages to write this so you owe me ten bucks.
Justin, as a public word of encouragement, always stand by your heartfelt convictions in sharing your thoughts through this 'blog' medium. It's a wonderful tool to get us all thinking and sharing! As a bit of an 'older' I guess one would say...I learn from 'youngers' like yourself. Your intelect and insite is so much a fuel for my heart as a person, Christian, Gay man. So, always, say what your heart leads. I appreciate you greatly. Stand up for those who are downtrodden, need love, direction and advise. I believe if we take what we learn and turn it to action for good we build on our future and can reach greater highs for each and every one we come in contact with.
An encouraging heart, JCinmeforever
Whew!
I was (mostly) right about you Mr Kelly.
....and I did say "he wants to make you think, to see other;s views and other ways of seeing things..."
Yes, an open mind is what everyone needs to foster. Too many people are rock solid in their views and beliefs....and I'm not talking religious beliefs here.....but you can include them too if you wish, I've an open mind on that one...ha!
And stirring about me being a dumb Adelaidian? Oh dear, you are in REAL trouble now!
There, you got me going this time, happy now?
Good!
Greg in happier Adelaide
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