Well, here's something interesting. . .Twins - one is gay, the other is straight. The straight one is married. The gay one wants to marry his lover, but cannot. . . Yet. Check out the vid.
That's pretty interesting, actually. One sperm, one egg split into two, identical twins, same genes, one straight individual, one gay individual.
So what does that say about being "born" gay? Does that validate the argument of those who say sexual orientation is a matter of choice? Don't ask me. I'm just watching the show.
Be patient, it's going to take some time for at least the 'western' countries to follow Canada's example. Not being snide here but what it takes is a political party that is in power, with a majority, to have the 'balls' to deal with the very vocal opposition that will ensue. But all that 'noise' will disappear in a very short time period....we never hear anything anymore from the people who oppose same-sex marriage. Nobody is listening because it is the law now to not discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Gee. . .I do not think I'd be that quick to dismiss the "nature" bit based on one case. From a scientific view, if there is evidence this one example might be valid, there would be a LOT of further investigation done, before making any decision.
If we let go too easily, then the old sock of "being gay is a choice and you can change and you will change or else" will take over and we are in serious POOP !
If in this case it IS nurture, I'd want to know how/when/why the twins were treated differently. . .if and from whom one twin received different gay-tending nurture. Then I'd want to know just which/what are the nurturings that make a person gay. . .
I think Gary's issue is too simplistic. . . this question is far more involved. I was in high school with twin brothers. I do not know for sure but my gaydar suggested both were gay. Both were sports jocks, etc. One twin seemed a little bit more "disposed" to being gay. I still think both are gay.
The time will come when they will sort out the origins of human sexual preference. More frightening is the prospect that gayness will be discoverable in utero and "correctable" with a shot. Can you imagine the sterility of a culture without the diversity of a gay input? The impact on the arts, especially, would be devastating. We can have a brave new world if we want, but it would be devoid of color.
I've often thought back to my childhood and wondered why I am wot I am.
I've read and considered the various theories over the years and tried to apply them to me, nothing really seems to fit and explain. (Not that I've had the need to understand other than my usual idle curiosity to undertand the world in general)
A boy and I explored, we were about 10-11 or perhaps even younger. No idea who lead the adventure. "Wees and bums" we called it...and I can still remember the mutual grins and giggles when we said it to each other before finding a hidey hole somewhere in the garden.
Parents were average, normal, family life was incredibly happy, understanding, loving ... and just damned normal.
Both sets of grandparents lived in the same small town, everyone knew each other, life could not have been more ideal....and normal.
Genetic? Possibly, probably. My opinion is that it probably is part of a "cause" ...
Hmm...a side thought...I'd much prefer to call it "reason", as "cause" implies something abnormal, and we know it isn't that!.. hee hee!
I reckon there must be some wired bias that each of us will develop a sexuality of our own, it will choose us without us knowing.
I suspect that in the majority of cases it is not caused by our upbringing except in cases where that upbringing is far from "normal".
That's my thoughts, but hey, who cares, we is wot we is.
I've no idea of why I am as I am, I just is wot I am, I is wot I is....and would not change it.
I have an appreciation of life, a view of life, a view of man that I'd not have if I'd been straight.
Life woulda been easier if I was straight, but the perspective the joy, the experience I've had would not be worth losing. I'd not be sitting here talking to people I'd never met, never will meet, about things that are part of me, important to me. Me, in fact.
NICE stuff there, Greg. All so blastardly normal, nice, non-traumatic, simple, nice, comfortable, etc. I like that. . .because I have a deep down reaction to people - civil and religious - trying to complicate, confuse, disect, analyse all over the place (I tend to do that a lot. . ! lol)
I am going to add something to wat you have said, my way of looking at me, at life, at you. . .simple; I believe this and I have worded this for myself, selecting from things I have learned from many sources. Call it naive as some have done, childish, brain washed. . I've heard it all, and more besides...LOL and to each his own. If you (the generic YOU, not you, Greg) want to describe yourself that way, or explain things. . ..go for it. If it works for you. . .fine. If it makes you happy, great. If not, keep trying. LOL
I believe that I am created in the image and likeness of God. I believe that God loves me personally with an everlasting love and, from all eternity, "saw me". . and, given the convergence of time and my parents creative love, God called me into life. . in His image and likeness. [Must be my parents look like God, too, cuz I sure look like them! ]
I believe all of this. . my life, my time, the abilities I have, the upbinging I've had, the educationI am getting, all that I am and all the people in my life, what I can do, and my homosexuality/sexual orientation are all God's gift to me. What I do with all of this, who I become is my gift to God.
If I am not happy with who and how I am, what am i missing? What am I failing to do. . . ? What do I need to change?
WHEN I say this to my peer in therapy, and they give me that "Ahh come on, Justin, that just a nice story.. ..they put up with me. . .they let me tell my tale and respect me/tolerate me. . .as I do them. ;-)
I have no other explanation for why I am gay that makes any sense: this does. ;-)
I agree Justin. I agree we all have to find our own reasons, reasoning, or whatever we need to do to be happy with ourselves....if it is religious in background, in cause or effect, so be it.
Sure, I analyse, I analyse the living crap out of everything as part of my being...I like to understand, but long ago I realised that some things we will never understand...well, I never will. Why? because there is no proof either way.
Some things to me are what they are, just that.
Like emotion, religion .... and women...haha! (only joking)
To each his own, and I DO NOT say that in a patronising manner, nosiree, not one little bit!
Hey, it might be me who is the one missing something!
My science, my logic says no, God is not real, but that is not proven, it is one of life's great unknowns. Without absolute proof either way and science-head like me cannot discount it....but cannot believe it either. I'm just wired that way, like I'm wired to be gay.
I respect religion, I respect other people's views, I respect other people.
I look at life, situations, at myself, at others, all with respect.
Not that you were implying otherwise...it's just that my fingers ran away just then...lol
Cheers fella, and the rest of us, Greg in Adelaide
12 comments:
That's pretty interesting, actually. One sperm, one egg split into two, identical twins, same genes, one straight individual, one gay individual.
So what does that say about being "born" gay? Does that validate the argument of those who say sexual orientation is a matter of choice? Don't ask me. I'm just watching the show.
So if it wasn't nature then it should be nurture!
Nope, this example disproves that myth.
GreginAdelaide
Be patient, it's going to take some time for at least the 'western' countries to follow Canada's example. Not being snide here but what it takes is a political party that is in power, with a majority, to have the 'balls' to deal with the very vocal opposition that will ensue. But all that 'noise' will disappear in a very short time period....we never hear anything anymore from the people who oppose same-sex marriage. Nobody is listening because it is the law now to not discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Gee. . .I do not think I'd be that quick to dismiss the "nature" bit based on one case. From a scientific view, if there is evidence this one example might be valid, there would be a LOT of further investigation done, before making any decision.
If we let go too easily, then the old sock of "being gay is a choice and you can change and you will change or else" will take over and we are in serious POOP !
If in this case it IS nurture, I'd want to know how/when/why the twins were treated differently. . .if and from whom one twin received different gay-tending nurture. Then I'd want to know just which/what are the nurturings that make a person gay. . .
I think Gary's issue is too simplistic. . . this question is far more involved. I was in high school with twin brothers. I do not know for sure but my gaydar suggested both were gay. Both were sports jocks, etc. One twin seemed a little bit more "disposed" to being gay. I still think both are gay.
justin
JIM. . .yeaaay yeaaaay. .. O CANADA. . . .
Did you know that In one of the Native Peoples' dialects Canada means "Big Village". Nice, ay. .
The time will come when they will sort out the origins of human sexual preference. More frightening is the prospect that gayness will be discoverable in utero and "correctable" with a shot. Can you imagine the sterility of a culture without the diversity of a gay input? The impact on the arts, especially, would be devastating. We can have a brave new world if we want, but it would be devoid of color.
J. . .I couldn't agree more!!! Without us it will be BOOORRRRINGGG!
j.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus3.htm
Well, I'm damned if I know.
I've often thought back to my childhood and wondered why I am wot I am.
I've read and considered the various theories over the years and tried to apply them to me, nothing really seems to fit and explain. (Not that I've had the need to understand other than my usual idle curiosity to undertand the world in general)
A boy and I explored, we were about 10-11 or perhaps even younger. No idea who lead the adventure. "Wees and bums" we called it...and I can still remember the mutual grins and giggles when we said it to each other before finding a hidey hole somewhere in the garden.
Parents were average, normal, family life was incredibly happy, understanding, loving ... and just damned normal.
Both sets of grandparents lived in the same small town, everyone knew each other, life could not have been more ideal....and normal.
Genetic? Possibly, probably. My opinion is that it probably is part of a "cause" ...
Hmm...a side thought...I'd much prefer to call it "reason", as "cause" implies something abnormal, and we know it isn't that!.. hee hee!
I reckon there must be some wired bias that each of us will develop a sexuality of our own, it will choose us without us knowing.
I suspect that in the majority of cases it is not caused by our upbringing except in cases where that upbringing is far from "normal".
That's my thoughts, but hey, who cares, we is wot we is.
I've no idea of why I am as I am, I just is wot I am, I is wot I is....and would not change it.
I have an appreciation of life, a view of life, a view of man that I'd not have if I'd been straight.
Life woulda been easier if I was straight, but the perspective the joy, the experience I've had would not be worth losing. I'd not be sitting here talking to people I'd never met, never will meet, about things that are part of me, important to me.
Me, in fact.
Thanks guys, thanks Justin O'Wonderful One.
Life is good
Greg in Adelaide
NICE stuff there, Greg. All so blastardly normal, nice, non-traumatic, simple, nice, comfortable, etc. I like that. . .because I have a deep down reaction to people - civil and religious - trying to complicate, confuse, disect, analyse all over the place (I tend to do that a lot. . ! lol)
I am going to add something to wat you have said, my way of looking at me, at life, at you. . .simple; I believe this and I have worded this for myself, selecting from things I have learned from many sources. Call it naive as some have done, childish, brain washed. . I've heard it all, and more besides...LOL and to each his own. If you (the generic YOU, not you, Greg) want to describe yourself that way, or explain things. . ..go for it. If it works for you. . .fine. If it makes you happy, great. If not, keep trying. LOL
I believe that I am created in the image and likeness of God. I believe that God loves me personally with an everlasting love and, from all eternity, "saw me". . and, given the convergence of time and my parents creative love, God called me into life. . in His image and likeness. [Must be my parents look like God, too, cuz I sure look like them! ]
I believe all of this. . my life, my time, the abilities I have, the upbinging I've had, the educationI am getting, all that I am and all the people in my life, what I can do, and my homosexuality/sexual orientation are all God's gift to me. What I do with all of this, who I become is my gift to God.
If I am not happy with who and how I am, what am i missing? What am I failing to do. . . ? What do I need to change?
WHEN I say this to my peer in therapy, and they give me that "Ahh come on, Justin, that just a nice story.. ..they put up with me. . .they let me tell my tale and respect me/tolerate me. . .as I do them. ;-)
I have no other explanation for why I am gay that makes any sense: this does. ;-)
justin
Ah yes, the innocent delights of wees and bums. If Greg had been more entrepreneurial, he would have created a board game and made a fortune.
Meanwhile, how many straights wonder what made them straight? Is being straight God's gift to them? I think it's irrelevant.
As Greg says, we is wot we is. And wot we is is wot we is.
But I still think wees and bums would make a great board game.
Justin, you got me to thinking... does God wear hearing-aids? j/k
Back to subject, so the twins were born gay, but one was nutured straight?
There are tolerances, or chances, in nature, just as there are in nurture.
I agree Justin.
I agree we all have to find our own reasons, reasoning, or whatever we need to do to be happy with ourselves....if it is religious in background, in cause or effect, so be it.
Sure, I analyse, I analyse the living crap out of everything as part of my being...I like to understand, but long ago I realised that some things we will never understand...well, I never will. Why? because there is no proof either way.
Some things to me are what they are, just that.
Like emotion, religion .... and women...haha! (only joking)
To each his own, and I DO NOT say that in a patronising manner, nosiree, not one little bit!
Hey, it might be me who is the one missing something!
My science, my logic says no, God is not real, but that is not proven, it is one of life's great unknowns.
Without absolute proof either way and science-head like me cannot discount it....but cannot believe it either.
I'm just wired that way, like I'm wired to be gay.
I respect religion, I respect other people's views, I respect other people.
I look at life, situations, at myself, at others, all with respect.
Not that you were implying otherwise...it's just that my fingers ran away just then...lol
Cheers fella, and the rest of us,
Greg in Adelaide
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